really really stupid newbie question.. re-GPS Celphone?

[kyleryner]

Hi,

Im REALLY a newbie on GPS.. few weeks ago all i know about GPS is what i see in the movies/TV (so at least i understand the basic concept of it)

I recently bought a (2nd hand) Windows Mobile phone - Samsung i780 with built in GPS while I was on my HK Trip. I immediately checked out the GPS function and was able to use Google Maps to see my location. I was blown away by the coolness factor :-) (HK has good Google Maps plus many Wifi spots so i was able to check it constantly)

Since then i tried to research a LOT about GPS, including reading various Wikis (now i know its history, how many satellites they have, and why its FREE.. something i was amazed to discover) I learned its the MAPS that you usually pay for and not the actual GPS signals (w/c i thought was amazing and quite charitable of Uncle Sam)

I researched (and still am) about how to make GPS work better on my particular phone model. (I learned of things like Enhanced GPS etc)

One of the first things i looked for of course was Philippine or even Metro Manila maps, and i encountered a few articles on MapKing, Garmin, Asiagis, etc. I even saw a software product by Garmin for Samsung phones, but its discontinued now, so i dont even know if it was FREE or you have to buy, for how much.

I definitely saw proof (mainly in youtube) that GPS navigation on my cp is possible..

w/c leads me now to my chancing by this fascinating site roadguide.ph..

I tried to go over the site, read the newbie and how to sections...

BUT...

You have to forgive me, but I guess im a Level 0 newbie, while the FAQs i see is for Level 1 newbies

So hope you can forgive my really really newbie questions,or if the answer is somewhere here on the site but i failed to find it, but can you possibly help me with these basic concepts? (and if i may be so bold as to perhaps suggest a new newbie sticky, sorta like an idiots guide to gps?)


1) Difference between dedicated GPS units and Celphones with built in GPS (actually i read a thread on what is more preferrable) I noticed most people seem to discuss dedicated units? Is there a section just for CP-GPS units?

2) I imagine CP-GPS would require a) Software and b) Maps.

a) is Garmin the main software used by users in this site? Can you tell me how I can get one and for how much? I checked their website and i see mostly devices, their software section dont have for mobile phones (WM or Symbian) and as I said, i saw a section where they had a software for Samsung but its been discontinued.

Are there any other cheap or better yet FREE (open source) software i can use?

b) Maps- of course we can get it HERE.



3) Just to clarify... a software enabled GPS on a cp would NOT need internet or Network signal, correct? FREE anywhere as long as there is GPS satellite signal?


4) Google Maps is great (and idiot-proof) for newbies like me, but it requires an internet connection thru wifi or gprs/3G...

Also, i checked their website and i was under the impression (it wasnt explicitly explained) that even celphones with no GPS but with wifi/browser can see My Location? Is this correct? My guess would then be it gets ur location thru celsites from ur network?? is this correct? If so then all along i thought i was using built in GPS I was just using the network connection? (not sure though)

5) My summarizing question would be.. having only a GPS-enabled celphone, am i in the right place here? Or am i like someone bringing a water pistol in a gunfight?


Sorry for all the ultra-newbie questions.. i did my best researching as much as i could on my own but in the end i need the help of kind souls from a kind forum Info on GPS use for my brand of phone is a bit hard to come by, but i figure, SURELY them putting in a GPS chip in the thing must account for some use, right? Aside from Google Maps of course.


Thanks for taking the time reading this long "introductory" post

[legtu]

So hope you can forgive my really really newbie questions,or if the answer is somewhere here on the site but i failed to find it, but can you possibly help me with these basic concepts? (and if i may be so bold as to perhaps suggest a new newbie sticky, sorta like an idiots guide to gps?)

i not an expert but i'll try to answer your questions...

as for a "general guide" to newbies, try to check out the threads in the "how to" sub-forum.

1) Difference between dedicated GPS units and Celphones with built in GPS (actually i read a thread on what is more preferrable) I noticed most people seem to discuss dedicated units? Is there a section just for CP-GPS units?

"cp-gps units" are under the "smartphone's and pda's" sub-forum. as for the differences between cp's and a dedicated gps unit. a dedicated gps unit usually have a better receiver/antenna as compared to cellphone's but generally, i'd say that there isn't much if we're going to talk about their basic function as a gps device.

2) I imagine CP-GPS would require a) Software and b) Maps.

a) is Garmin the main software used by users in this site? Can you tell me how I can get one and for how much? I checked their website and i see mostly devices, their software section dont have for mobile phones (WM or Symbian) and as I said, i saw a section where they had a software for Samsung but its been discontinued.

Are there any other cheap or better yet FREE (open source) software i can use?

currently, the map(s) provided here are for garmin devices only. garmin used to sell their "mobile xt" software for other devices like smartphones and pda's before they discontinued it. afaik, they're only selling "mobile xt" for blackberry devices now.

as for a cheap/free alternative to similar softwares like garmin on your device, i don't know.

3) Just to clarify... a software enabled GPS on a cp would NOT need internet or Network signal, correct? FREE anywhere as long as there is GPS satellite signal?

afaik, this depends on your settings, the device and software. some devices also supports assisted gps or network-based positioning w/c needs a data connection. as for the software part, garmin and other "similar" mapping software has maps w/c you can pre-load into the device while others like google maps usually requires a data connection.

if you set your device to solely rely on a dedicated gps receiver and the mapping software that your using supports pre-loaded maps, then yes, it is "free".

4) Google Maps is great (and idiot-proof) for newbies like me, but it requires an internet connection thru wifi or gprs/3G...

Also, i checked their website and i was under the impression (it wasnt explicitly explained) that even celphones with no GPS but with wifi/browser can see My Location? Is this correct? My guess would then be it gets ur location thru celsites from ur network?? is this correct? If so then all along i thought i was using built in GPS I was just using the network connection? (not sure though)

the "my location" feature of google maps can make use of either gps or network-based positioning.

the samsung i780 has a built-in gps. depending on your settings, google maps' "my location" feature could've used either the built-in gps or network positioning.

5) My summarizing question would be.. having only a GPS-enabled celphone, am i in the right place here? Or am i like someone bringing a water pistol in a gunfight?

Sorry for all the ultra-newbie questions.. i did my best researching as much as i could on my own but in the end i need the help of kind souls from a kind forum Info on GPS use for my brand of phone is a bit hard to come by, but i figure, SURELY them putting in a GPS chip in the thing must account for some use, right? Aside from Google Maps of course.

afaik, everyone is welcome here.

there's a lot of gps-related uses on a smartphone and it'll all depend on the availability of gps-related software(s) for your phone. aside from showing your current location, it can be used as a digital compass, speed alarm, track logger, routing, geo-tagging photos/videos, an "odometer", etc...

[kyleryner]

Legtu,

thanks for a GREAT, and lengthy response... you gave more than enough feedback and i really appreciate it

I did check out the How Tos and Smartphone sections, but it did not have the answers I was looking for (specifically where to get software for my phone) But I will be posting there too, just in case

currently, the map(s) provided here are for garmin devices only. garmin used to sell their "mobile xt" software for other devices like smartphones and pda's before they discontinued it. afaik, they're only selling "mobile xt" for blackberry devices now.

as for a cheap/free alternative to similar softwares like garmin on your device, i don't know.

Thats my point. They USED TO sell Garmin XT, and Samsung Mobile Navigator for my model. From what I gather, as of at least 10 months ago, you can still get these, so i must be a few months too late coming into GPS... arrrghhh!!!!

I suspect they discontinued this software maybe bec a) its competing with their hardware sales, and b) too much technical glitches on various phones/platforms so maybe they just decided to discontinue it. But I wish they had just made it available for FREE (w/ no tech support) instead of just discontinuing it. Or selling it a substantial discount...

By any chance would you or anyone know if these software are still available out there (legally of course per forum rules) (as in online software retailers, etc)

afaik, this depends on your settings, the device and software. some devices also supports assisted gps or network-based positioning w/c needs a data connection. as for the software part, garmin and other "similar" mapping software has maps w/c you can pre-load into the device while others like google maps usually requires a data connection.

if you set your device to solely rely on a dedicated gps receiver and the mapping software that your using supports pre-loaded maps, then yes, it is "free".



the "my location" feature of google maps can make use of either gps or network-based positioning.

the samsung i780 has a built-in gps. depending on your settings, google maps' "my location" feature could've used either the built-in gps or network positioning.

I guess for now i have to make do with google maps (I just need to activate a data plan on my mobile.. I plan to use a prepaid sim instead of my postpaid one to make sure i dont go overboard with data charges..hehe last time i used internet on my cp years ago i ended up with a whooping bill, back then it was per kb rate with no "unlimited" plans ..hehe )

I hope one day Google will make their maps available as downloads (per city/area I mean, as of course it would be impossible to download the maps of the entire PLANET... )

Still, we have to be thankful for Google for giving us such a great FREE feature, and Uncle Sam for giving GPS signals to the public for FREE. I mean if you ask anyone 20 years ago, back when Pierce Brosnan was just starting out as 007 that an average guy in a 3rd world country can do this thing on his phone theyd say you were dreaming..

afaik, everyone is welcome here.

there's a lot of gps-related uses on a smartphone and it'll all depend on the availability of gps-related software(s) for your phone. aside from showing your current location, it can be used as a digital compass, speed alarm, track logger, routing, geo-tagging photos/videos, an "odometer", etc...

I did see a cool software like that..(from my endless research... i just kept clciking on links left and right... as of now i have about 30 tabs on my browser..LOL)

AGIS NAVFone SG .. has cool features like those u mentioned..

i even downloaded the software and metro manila maps for my unit... turns out its for registered users only (it came pre-installed on some devices or something) and likely for Singapore users only I guess. Kinda weird for the site not to be explicit about it in their FAQs and download pages, or even provide a link for SELLING it for interested users like me... ah well.. the search continues...

Legtu, again, many thanks for the reply, i know you put some thought and effort in responding. I really appreciate it.

Cheers!

[hbt]

they discontinued the mobile xt because of nuviphone.

before mobile xt i'll cost around 5000.00 pesos. with that price i'd rather buy me a nuvi 2 series like 205 or 205w. buy it from this person http://roadguide.ph/forums/showthread.php?t=2494
their service is good and they're the cheapest.

nothing beat dedicated GPSr. it has more feature like recording tracks etc...

battery drains fast using the celphone equipt with gps

oh btw, welcome to roadguide

[doki]

they discontinued the mobile xt because of nuviphone.

before mobile xt i'll cost around 5000.00 pesos. with that price i'd rather buy me a nuvi 2 series like 205 or 205w. buy it from this person http://roadguide.ph/forums/showthread.php?t=2494
their service is good and they're the cheapest.

nothing beat dedicated GPSr. it has more feature like recording tracks etc...

battery drains fast using the celphone equipt with gps

oh btw, welcome to roadguide

i agree. i have omnia with mobilext. battery drains fast, although i could connect it with a car charger while navigating, but the response time is quite delayed, and my navigation gets interrupted by messages and calls.
that's why i decided to buy a nuvi 255w.
before, i would advise you just to buy it abroad, but now, i agree with hbt, that person's price is already well reasonable enough. it will save you charges on international delivery.

[hbt]

i also read it somewhere in the roadguides forum that it hangs sometimes while using the gpsr and somebody calls

[legtu]

By any chance would you or anyone know if these software are still available out there (legally of course per forum rules) (as in online software retailers, etc)

you can still download a trial version of mobile xt on garmin's website here. it should allow you to check out the software and roadguide map for a few days . i wouldn't recommend trying to purchase it from other websites as garmin itself has already discontinued the product.

I guess for now i have to make do with google maps (I just need to activate a data plan on my mobile.. I plan to use a prepaid sim instead of my postpaid one to make sure i dont go overboard with data charges..hehe last time i used internet on my cp years ago i ended up with a whooping bill, back then it was per kb rate with no "unlimited" plans ..hehe )

yup, i'd recommend using a prepaid sim or try to subscribe to a temporary unlimited data plan if your gonna be using google maps a lot and you'll be travelling to different places.

I hope one day Google will make their maps available as downloads (per city/area I mean, as of course it would be impossible to download the maps of the entire PLANET... )

they might, someday. for now, there are other ways around the net that'll allow you to download google maps/earth "tiles" for offline viewing.

I did see a cool software like that..(from my endless research... i just kept clciking on links left and right... as of now i have about 30 tabs on my browser..LOL)

AGIS NAVFone SG .. has cool features like those u mentioned..

i even downloaded the software and metro manila maps for my unit... turns out its for registered users only (it came pre-installed on some devices or something) and likely for Singapore users only I guess. Kinda weird for the site not to be explicit about it in their FAQs and download pages, or even provide a link for SELLING it for interested users like me... ah well.. the search continues...

yup, there are lots of gps-related smartphone software around. if one of your main usage for gps in your phone is going to be turn-by-turn guidance/routing info/poi or address search/etc., the best choice would be garmin + roadguide map. currently, other maps(free or otherwise) pales in comparison with the roadguide map.

[legtu]

nothing beat dedicated GPSr. it has more feature like recording tracks etc...

imo, there are merits to both dedicated gpsr' and "multi-devices" w/c have gps. this will all depend on your budget and intended usage.

but if its features that we're gonna talk about, imo its the smartphones or pda's that's the clear winner here, hands-down.

[doki]

imo, there are merits to both dedicated gpsr' and "multi-devices" w/c have gps. this will all depend on your budget and intended usage.

but if its features that we're gonna talk about, imo its the smartphones or pda's that's the clear winner here, hands-down.

here is also a thread where the comparison was discussed.
http://roadguide.ph/forums/showthread.php?t=2226

[kyleryner]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the insightful tips and comments..

As i said, Im just a newbie on GPS..

right now im not looking on buying a dedicatd GPS.. I was shopping around for a Smartphone (used to have a Windows Mobile Phone 2003 ed and loved it, back then there was no iphones, MP3 players were not that common and expensive, and i loved how my phone can do things most phones cant, unlike these days where even our maids have a camphone-mp3-video player :-) . ) Anyway, i just wanted to get a new winmo phone after some years since i last had one. I got a good deal on Samsung i780. I wanted a WIFI phone, and It was a *BONUS* that I discovered it has GPS built in. Within a few hours of buying the phone, I was tinkering with it and downloaded Google Maps and saw my location down to 100 meters. I was blown away... hehe

Now im merely looking at pushing its GPS capabilities to its full potential, hence my joining this great forum

It would be cool to go beyond Google Maps and do Navigation and Routing and stuff like that. It would have come in handy this Summer where we've been to several places (Baguio, Tagaytay, Subic, HK, etc) Specially our Baguio Trip last month where I drove up there for the first time. Anyway, once Summer is over and kids have school, I'll be stuck in Manila in the immediate future anyway... hehe.

But it would be nice just KNOWING inside my phone i have a GPS i can call on when I need it. I almost wish I'd get lost one of these days just so I have an excuse to call on Google Maps (for now).. hehe

So right now im happy with my GPS capable Smartphone and will continue experimenting with it. Once I get it to work, I hope i would be able to contribute in the mapping effort.

Thanks again for all the tips, I will try that Garmin link. (That was pretty hidden or did i just miss it? And it doesnt mention in that link that its only a DEMO version..)

I also saw this.. http://www.efficasoft.com/gpsutiliti...c_devices.html

its $22 so around 1,000 pesos.. probably around what im willing to pay (for now) on a feature I dont really NEED right now, just want to have it for the coolness factor. <G>

But ill keep looking around and reading reviews first before I go out and buy that. Might have better alternatives..

[legtu]

Thanks again for all the tips, I will try that Garmin link. (That was pretty hidden or did i just miss it? And it doesnt mention in that link that its only a DEMO version..)

hmmm... when they removed or changed the part of their site related to mobile xt, other parts remained intact.

as for not mentioning that its a "demo" version, well technically, it's not. it'll work as either full version(if you have a registration/unlock key) or trial.

I also saw this.. http://www.efficasoft.com/gpsutiliti...c_devices.html

its $22 so around 1,000 pesos.. probably around what im willing to pay (for now) on a feature I dont really NEED right now, just want to have it for the coolness factor. <G>

But ill keep looking around and reading reviews first before I go out and buy that. Might have better alternatives..

its one my frequently used gps apps aside from mobile xt.

i use it mostly for recording tracks, speed alarm and occasional waypoint "marker".

come to think of it, it might actually have more usage than mobile xt since i usually just leave it running in the background even when i'm not navigating. i never got to try its "navigation" related features since i was already using mobile xt before i had gps utilities. hopefully they'll add to one of its features the capability to show gps accuracy so that i don't have to go to another app just for that.